The Moment Everything Changed | From Trauma to Healing

Stefan (00:01) Okay, so welcome, Dr. Hanan or Hanan as she is a great friend of mine and we go back so many years and we've been there and walking beside each other, listening, sharing our experiences and I never forget Dr. Hanan's the first time I interviewed you, I think it was Your Onion podcast and it was such a fantastic podcast because Dr. Hanan El Basha (00:28) Yes. Stefan (00:31) I thought, wow, she is amazing. She is someone that is just so knowledgeable, someone that I could never be. And she's got all these qualifications as well. And the conversation lasted over an hour. And then I said, okay, look, I've got to have you back. And you came back and we had another amazing conversation. And from that, we've just always kept in touch and... We've been there for each other and now we meet on a regular basis having a coffee and yeah, share our stories and here. Say again. Dr. Hanan El Basha (01:08) sharing our healing. and sharing our healing. Stefan (01:13) Absolutely and it's been weird because we kind of ⁓ are strangely experience the same things and we're kind of parallel in our own little universe and it's been great so I really appreciate and to have you kick off this kind of podcast although it's kind of on the back of my daily lives Dr. Hanan El Basha (01:26) Yeah, that's true. Stefan (01:41) which is just literally because I put it out on YouTube, it's just got an amazing response that people want to come on. I thought, well, I know people want to come on, but the first person that I want to come on my show is Dr. Hanan. So thank you. Dr. Hanan El Basha (01:55) My honor, honestly, thank you. I know when you sent me, would you like to do this? I'm like, of course. I never say no to you to have a conversation. Stefan (02:05) I would have been surprised if you said no. So my first question is, where are you now? Because that's what I do when I'm coaching people is I want to find out. I want the audience to be walking beside you and how you're seeing life and experiencing life now. Dr. Hanan El Basha (02:11) Next up. That's a weighted question on so many levels. ⁓ I think just to give a bit of context, so I'm based in Qatar. I'm Egyptian. So if we're looking at the physical location of where you are now, I am in Qatar. ⁓ I think everyone that would be watching this would know that the region has really experienced a lot of instability the past few weeks. And I think for me personally, it really did shake me. Stefan (02:36) Hahaha Dr. Hanan El Basha (03:02) would shake my foundation because ⁓ it brought up a lot of trauma from childhood. I was in Kuwait when Iraq invaded. the 12-year-old me reemerged 35 years later just saying, my God, our safety is ⁓ kind of at stake. ⁓ Understandably, of course, and we are grateful that we are not physically unsafe. We are safe in Qatar. ⁓ doing an amazing job with all the defense that's being there. But for me, it was kind of a testament to my healing. ⁓ The one that I've spent so many years doing and the one you were just talking about, because the previous versions of me would have been in a complete panic attack right now and shut down and, you know, all of this. But I'm grateful to have reached this position where I am experiencing a more healed version of myself that's able to acknowledge all the trauma and the emotional distress and everything, but at the same time, employ my rational mind and start looking at stats. And I had even shared this reflection in a post on LinkedIn just because I'm like, my God, you know that the human body is such an amazing mechanism. ⁓ Because initially, the body reacts to stress, you know, kind of like survivability with the adrenaline cortisol just kind of flowing through our bodies and stuff. But the body's main function is to try to regain its homeostasis. ⁓ And this is, it's just the basic functionality of the body ⁓ and to be able to function properly. So that for me was indicative of what's happening right now for me personally is, okay, I'm supposed I have a business, I'm a business strategist. I loved what I'm doing, but that had to take a back seat. It was about safety, was about security. It was about, you know, looking at my identity and where I am and my family, of course, my husband, my son, and myself. So all of these elements showed me that I'm a more healed version of myself that is able to process information, is able to make... rational decisions, I call them as informed as possible decisions because you can never make an informed decision. What you decide on today could change tomorrow and we are seeing this live every day. And that for me was where I realized I am now in a better position than I was a year ago, five, 10, definitely 20 years ago. ⁓ And that has also been the accumulation of not just my healing, but also my professional journey. going from corporate to having my own business, multiple businesses actually first with partners and then kind of having my own business to business doctor right now and looking at it and always revising it. As I said, I'm a strategist at heart and mind, so I'm always re-strategizing as per not just what's happening externally in the market and all developments and AI and all that. but also internally, is it still aligned with me as a person and with my objectives and with my life ⁓ kind of vision? And I think that's where I am right now. I don't know if that even answered your question. Stefan (06:40) No, that was beautiful because... I feel every time we speak, feel that you're kind of there walking, as I said at the beginning, walking the same kind of journey. And, isn't it amazing how, you know, what is happening? Things do show up, but we're because we've been on this journey, we're, more able to understand what's going on. We're because we're further down. or further along on that journey and we've learnt on that journey, we've learnt more about ourselves, we've learnt more about the environment that we're in and as you said, if it happened a year ago or 10 years ago, 15, 20 years ago, we would have reacted in a completely different way but because this journey we're learning, we keep on understanding or figuring out things. and we're questioning and watching internally as well as externally, we're in a much better position to handle the situation. And it's so beautiful. that's where I want my clients to be when I am taking them on this journey is to understand the journey that you've been on, to learn from that, to understand where you are and how you can use all of that understanding, all that learning to Dr. Hanan El Basha (07:51) Yes. Stefan (08:13) move forward in a better, more enlightening way. Dr. Hanan El Basha (08:19) That's true. And you know what, Stefan? I think the thing that we all need to focus on is to give ourselves some grace. ⁓ As you said, we're learning every day. ⁓ it's not a matter that... Tony Robbins, know, okay, I agree and disagree with a lot of things he says, but he's got the statement, ⁓ life happens for you, not to you. And yes, I... Stefan (08:32) Hmm. Dr. Hanan El Basha (08:46) I was victimized in my own life for a considerable number of years. But when I had to switch that lens around and say, okay, what is this, as you said, what is this teaching me? Or what am I learning from this? And reframing a lot of what was happening in my life, I could come out on the other end as a relatively more evolved version of myself. But I have to give myself grace. Because as I said, you make as informed as possible decisions based on who you are today. Like going back to that question you're asking, where are you now? It's based on where I am right now. When I look back 10, 20, 30 years ago, my God, these decisions, was like, what was I thinking? But it was who I was back then. I've made things that Stefan (09:39) Absolutely. Dr. Hanan El Basha (09:42) have harmed me, have hurt people around me, cost me dearly financially, emotionally, mentally, whatever it is, whatever it was. ⁓ But I learned from it. And when I gave myself grace to say, I've made a better choice today than I had yesterday or than I would have a year ago, that in itself is my biggest present to me. Stefan (10:10) Beautiful. All right. You mentioned about the lens. Let's go back to when you put that lens on yourself. What did you when you look back now? What have you learned from that journey? Because I know it's been an incredible journey and I we don't have time. We don't have the to go into absolutely. So Dr. Hanan El Basha (10:30) What? I told you this could go on for hours. Stefan (10:38) If you could turn that lens on a certain point in time on that journey in the past, where would it be pointed to for you to realize or understand? who you were or what you wanted to become or what was the situation that there was a turning point for you. Dr. Hanan El Basha (11:03) Like, looking back, there are many, I think, of ⁓ road forks, like intersections along my journey that I wish I had made. Well, I can't wish, but I hoped that I had made a different decision, would have changed the trajectory of my life. But one of them, like the most fundamental one for me is the one that happened about eight years ago. Stefan (11:11) Yeah, yeah. Dr. Hanan El Basha (11:30) That's when I walked out of the last of four businesses I was building with partners and friends. And I thought I was walking away empowered. I thought I was walking away because I had a bigger objective. I was completing my doctoral degree then, and I was like, all focused. And I was doing consulting jobs on the side to finance this and all of that. I had to... I hadn't realized that I was walking away a very disempowered version of myself ⁓ and traumatized. I was traumatized by going into private business with ⁓ friends who I considered best friends, brother, a best friend, a sister, you know, all of this. ⁓ And I walked away and I held on to all that pain. And that caused me to cocoon for maybe up to two years. As I was coming out of the cocoon, that's when we first met. And I remember you asked me that question. And that was, by the way, that was my first podcast interview ever. So, know, kudos. When you asked me, where have you been? And I'm like, I'm my best kept secret. Because I was like staying home. I didn't want to get exposed anymore. you remember. But the point is that Stefan (12:47) Yeah, yeah, I it, absolutely. Dr. Hanan El Basha (12:55) version of me was a victim in my own life. believed, you know, life was happening to me. I believed everyone else had power over me. ⁓ And that everything I was doing is for, it was external bound. I wasn't doing it for me. I was doing it, you know, the doctorate for my mom, who was yearning for that pride, you know, the businesses for my friends and kind of for me to be doing something and gaining financially. everything was that even my family, felt like I was doing it just because I had the roles of mother and wife, know, daughter and sister and all of this. And it took me a while to just stay there and just be there and not know. was just like kind of doing the work robotic. You know, I'm studying for my doctoral. Stefan (13:48) which sounds exhausting even when you're talking about it. was just like, how did you manage? How did you keep it all together? Because it sounds totally exhausting. Dr. Hanan El Basha (13:50) Yeah, it was. Somehow I did and I remember telling people what I was doing because I was like running two businesses, you know, at any point in time. My son was still a toddler, you know, my husband with his work. I'm an expat with no system, like family support system in place and stuff. And when people would hear everything I'm involved in, I'm like, my God, you're superwoman. And I used to say, am I? You know, I always like to read, am I? Should I be? And I think that's the other part is we should not be superhumans because there is always a bandwidth. And that bandwidth for me kept, you know, I kept crossing it because I got a lot, I get psychosomatic symptoms, which means my body manifests all that stress into physical symptoms. And there was a point where I was literally collapsing health-wise, but I'd still go just because I have that responsibility. ⁓ So I was kind of mechanical and robotic in my responsibilities until one day I remember dropping my son off at school and coming back, you know, ready to go and work on my doctoral study and do everything else I need to do. And I just had this feeling of I'm done. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired of everything. And I remember opening up my mobile, going to YouTube and looking for positive motivation speech. It's just as simple as that. And that for me was the turning point. Where I started, it's, you when you listen to these things, excuse me, again, everyone has their own story. You can't take it and say, I need to apply everything. This is, yes, you can have similarities in the stories and the hardships and some of the traumas even, but you cannot take that solution of how they came out at the other end and say, that's what I'm gonna do, that's my only path. And I realized that I started kind of weaving my own recipe for a healing journey. And I went through a lot of healing modalities, therapy, pranic healing, know, everything that's under the roof of what healing should entail, I did that. I did the meditation, the affirmations, whatever it is. And I started creating my own kind of canvas of what works for me. But the most important part was going back, ⁓ I call it for reflective healing and looking at myself in these situations. And that's why I saying, you need to give yourself grace. Looking at who I was back then and why I accepted whatever happened. any form of distress or forms of abuse of certain types and realizing that it happened because that's who I was then. It's not because I'm a weak person. I've proven to myself over and over again, I'm not a weak person. I don't think anyone is a weak person. We do rise. Everyone is a phoenix of sorts. We do rise from the hardships of the worst times of our lives. But when you rise, you rise with the learning on your back and kind of embedded within your new framework right now. And I looked at that and I started saying, okay, I understand now why this happened and who I was back then. And now, okay, this is a new kind of layer of I accept this, I don't accept this. But it doesn't stop there. There is no ceiling to this. So every time something would happen that I had not addressed or gone back and done the reflective healing form, like, I thought I dealt with this. ⁓ this is in you later. Okay, fine. Now I accept this. I don't accept this. This is my new kind of SOP, my standard operating procedures and manual. And, and it kept building up this way. I don't think we are ever healed, but healing is, a beautiful process to be in because it allows you to look back. to reflect, to adjust, and to adapt, and then to kind of try out this new version of you. And then you kind of stop at another roadblock of, ⁓ I didn't expect this to happen now. I didn't expect me to react this way. I didn't expect that to block me. And then you do the same process over and over again. So that, for me, was that process. And as I said, it's been at least eight years. ⁓ As we started, I'm a a much more evolved, healed version of myself. I'm not aiming for perfection. I'm aiming to be a better version of me on a daily basis, on a monthly, annual, whatever it is. And I give myself these kind of checkpoints of stopping and saying, okay, where am I practicing a lot of gratitude for everything, not everything that in my life just everything that I am, everything that I have, everyone that I have in my life. ⁓ That for me is kind of been my grounding rock and then building up everything around it and then asking myself, what else could I be? Who else could I be? Who else could I impact? And I believe that we have been created to positively impact ⁓ on the world. and any interaction with any person at any point in time, whether you are giving a speech to tens of thousands of people or you're buying your morning coffee, I believe we always have the opportunity to positively imprint on someone else's life, which is exactly what you are doing on a daily basis. And I know this is where, you know, how we bonded so much just because we have that ⁓ vision for our lives. Stefan (20:06) Absolutely, that was beautiful and thank you for sharing. Thank you for being open and honest and vulnerable and allowing us to walk beside you on that journey and it's incredible because you know what came up for me while I was listening to you was that a lot of people aren't or not aware of that self-reflection of looking at how did I get here. Dr. Hanan El Basha (20:09) Thank you. Stefan (20:33) why did I get here? How did I end up the way I am? They do the self-help books that and they're trying to hold on to things without understanding how they got there in the first place and they lose themselves in this help. As you said, you were trying different things, which is great. That's how we kind of work out what works for us, but what works for us, but not understanding who we Dr. Hanan El Basha (20:47) Yes. Stefan (21:02) are as us in the first place and literally you were talking about the programming all that programming that got you to where you are you were you were lift you were literally going into the database you were going into the programming and figuring out how the hell was this program written and why am i responding to this and and can i rewrite that and that's what you have literally gone and done you've literally gone in there and you've literally and you're creating new programs Dr. Hanan El Basha (21:15) Yeah. Exactly. Changing the course codes, yes. Stefan (21:33) and absolutely and you're going is this going to work and that's what we do as and that's what you're describing you're describing yourself going into the original program seeing how how it was written why it was written who it was written by and then okay i don't need this this isn't working for me so i'm gonna rewrite something and then new code let's see Let's see how it feels. Let's see how it goes. Is this right for me? Is it not right for me? That's basically what you were saying. And it's just like, it's beautiful. And as you say, it's never gonna be perfect because it's, look, the original code wasn't perfect. And now I'm rewriting that code. And now I'm trying to figure out if this code is what I really want while also. Dr. Hanan El Basha (22:04) That's Stefan (22:25) learning new things about how to support yourself on this journey and the beautiful thing again what you said was listening to your heart and helping others and as you say that's what we're there for we're here to help each other on this journey because we're all trying to figure out what this journey is about there's no manual there's nothing to say hey this is you this is the manual for you no there isn't and the parents are trying to work out Who is this thing? We don't know. All we've got is who programmed us and we're trying to figure out us in a relationship as new parents, etc, etc, etc. And they do the best they can with the limited knowledge that they have, etc, etc. Dr. Hanan El Basha (22:55) Yep. Yes, I have to comment there is part of our ⁓ source code, as you were saying, also embedded within it is the blaming factor. ⁓ I blame my parents. I blamed my partners. I blamed society, culture, whatever it is. And I think part of the changing is realizing exactly what you said. Everyone did the best that they could with what they knew and who they were right there. Stefan (23:21) Hmm. You Absolutely. Dr. Hanan El Basha (23:40) could they have done things differently? Hell yeah. Yes. But what that being said, I am taking control right now and I can change my story and I can change my trajectory and I can influence my son a little better than what happened before. Does that mean I'm doing a perfect job with him? Of course not. He will have his own. Stefan (23:44) Look. Exactly. Dr. Hanan El Basha (24:08) small T capital T traumas, I'm sure. And there will be a point where he will blame us for something. I'm sure too. But I'm still like kind of what Maya Angelou used to say is like, when you know better, do better. And I think that's the essence of it. We're just trying to do better. But you can't do better exactly what you said. If you don't know and you have to know, you have to go back and just Stefan (24:11) You Dr. Hanan El Basha (24:37) No, don't get stuck there because getting stuck there is the thing that kept me frozen for so long because I was stuck there, I was knowing, I was blaming, and I was doing nothing about it. Nothing's going to change unless you do. Unless you change, I call it kind of changing the parameters in the equation. Change the parameters to get a different result. If you're always going to be using the same parameters and wondering why it's not working, Stefan (24:39) No. Dr. Hanan El Basha (25:06) It's because it's math. One plus one equals two. Okay, you can argue that a million times. But you can change that for you and for your family. It's kind of looking at your impact circle and the ripple impact effect, whether that's one person, a hundred, a million, whatever it is. Just start with you and then see how that can resonate out. Stefan (25:12) you Oh, 100%. And it reminds me of a conversation that I had a couple of days ago, where my children went out to the supermarket and they they were bickering and, then my daughter comes back and says, Dad, my, your, my brother used the f word. And the old me would have, would have reacted in rage. And I could feel it. And it was just like, No, I'm not. Dr. Hanan El Basha (26:00) you Stefan (26:03) I'm not going to go there because I know nothing will benefit. No one will benefit from that rage. I need to look at it in a way that, okay, how am I showing up? Why was it triggered? Why did he feel that he had lost control? And what was my daughter doing to literally press that button to literally trigger him? So I was looking at the bigger picture. So I needed time to think about it and to decode it all. And then I invited Each one of them separately down and I had the conversation. I said you lost control I just want you to be aware of that You know that is that isn't right. You know, you don't use that kind of language especially to your sister and you lost control and then obviously it's the blame game, etc, etc. So then we had to decode all that but At the end of it. He was able to understand it better understand how he had showed up understand how she had triggered him, et cetera, et cetera. And then I brought my daughter down and we spoke. said, you knew what you were doing and you pushed him and you're very clever. And the fact that maybe you've gone to bed late, that you haven't got the patience for your brother and you're using all the facial signals to press certain buttons. You know, you're very savvy. So. Dr. Hanan El Basha (27:14) Yeah. Stefan (27:32) I stood back and I went, great, rather than walk away all frustrated, angry, and that could have carried on for a few hours, which the old me would have done. And my older children have those stories where dad lost it, where dad was out of control. And they laugh about it now, but I kind of think now, how did I affect them by me showing up like that, by me? Dr. Hanan El Basha (27:34) Wow, you know, that was good. Stefan (28:01) expressing that anger and how for such a young child to experience that to see that and that kind of makes me like I'm sorry I'm really I'm really sorry that I show but as you say I was doing the best I could at that time with the limited knowledge that I had with the situation that I'd never experienced before for the love for the frustration I didn't know I didn't I didn't understand. I didn't understand the new me. I didn't understand that the programming of my dad and now when I look back in acting the way he used to act because of frustration, it was literally coming through me. And it's only as you go further down the journey and start learning and looking back and learning from others as well. You know, I watch and I listen and I think, yeah, I'm not going to I'm going to be more reflective in what's going on. I'm not going to literally believe this as soon as something pops up. I'm going to take time out. I think there's one coach that says count to five that gives you the time to breathe, etc. Is it Mel Robbins? She says something about it. She does something. The five second rule. yes, so my kids now and I think, yeah, they're teenagers now. Dr. Hanan El Basha (29:18) Yeah, the five second rule. Stefan (29:30) they are going to test me in different ways because I've never, you know, my previous teenagers were separate from me, but now these two are living with me. So I know they're going to test me, but yeah, test away because I'm, I'm a much more better person than I was years ago. And I think we can all learn. also, as you say, with this experience, with this, with these lessons, they can take something with them that they won't remember that, it's okay. Just to throw everything out just because you're frustrated or angry. Now they can start thinking about why am I feeling like this? Why am I reacting the way I am and how that affects everyone else around me? Dr. Hanan El Basha (30:11) True, true, very true. And I think that that's our responsibility, just like, as you said, it's our responsibility to ourselves and to our children. Like what you said, like reflecting back on my parents, how was raised and everything else, I started changing my language with our son. And like, Stefan (30:33) Hmm. Dr. Hanan El Basha (30:35) when we used to go to school, I drop him off every morning at school. And as he's getting out of the car, I tell him, make yourself proud today. It's not about the grades. It's not, you know, just embedded that in him. And I know most of the, you know, kind of he dismisses me more and more every morning, but I know that being programmed into his subconscious, just to make himself proud. And I've explained it to him, even when he was much younger, he's 15 now. Stefan (30:53) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dr. Hanan El Basha (31:05) And I think I started doing that when he was like seven or eight years old. Just saying that, I said, when you make yourself proud, when you know that you made yourself proud, by default, everyone else around you is proud. Mommy and daddy are proud, you your friends are, your teachers are, whatever it is. And when you know that you can do better, do better. And the last thing I keep telling him, and that from a very young age is I tell him, there are consequences to your actions. Stefan (31:34) Hmm. Dr. Hanan El Basha (31:35) So when he was much younger and I can ground him or I could have, now it's very difficult to admit that. I tell him that's a consequence to that action. You knew that action was not appropriate. It was not right. It was not allowed, whatever it is. So that's a consequence. And that age, even when he was much younger, I would tell him, what do you think the consequence should be? Of course, most of the time he didn't think there should be any, but... Stefan (31:40) Yeah. Dr. Hanan El Basha (32:04) There were times where you'd really kind of step up to it and say, you you can take my mobile for a day or you could take, you know, do this. I get no PlayStation for two days, whatever it is. ⁓ And these are things that maybe I believe, of course, I was taught that growing up. Again, I went through a British school, so there were a lot of consequences to your actions in the British education system. But having it embedded so Stefan (32:27) Mmm, I can believe it. Dr. Hanan El Basha (32:33) clearly, I think is important. That lesson that your children are going to take is kind of to the consequence to their action, but also understanding the impact they have on others and whether they want to utilize it negatively or positively. Stefan (32:52) Absolutely. And that's what I said to him as well. Look, that was to your sister. If you had allowed that to come out in another ⁓ environment, you might have paid heavy for that. There are consequences when you aren't in control of yourself. And I've experienced that when I was younger. I lost control one time and I found myself at the police station because I was frustrated that someone had stopped before me and I literally made a maneuver that was dangerous, so without thinking about it. So yes, beautiful. Okay, on that note, we've heard where you're standing. We heard the journey prior to that. Where are you going? Where is this beautiful, bright butterfly that is appearing now? Where is she flying to? Where? What is her destination? Dr. Hanan El Basha (33:50) The destination has always been to get to a point, you know, the kind of, building up on everything. It's to impact, positively impact more people through my work. I do speaking engagements. you know, kind of, I do work with clients and all of this, but for me now it's kind of looking, how can this go to... a larger number of people, again, based on the ripple impact effect, because if I can impact 100 people in a room and these people go out and impact one to five people in their environment, you know, it's kind of that. ⁓ So for me, it's looking at how it's not about bigger stages. It's about more impact to more people within even closed environments like You know, I've spoken to you again about my strategy of work. So even the strategy is no longer kind of looking at one-on-one work, but it's one to few, one to many. ⁓ Also, because I believe in collective wisdom. I believe that when we are in a room together, in a space together, whether that's 10 people or 100 people, that opportunity to learn, and you were saying that, to learn from each other across different disciplines, especially since my focus is on supporting small and medium enterprises, SMEs, and their leaders. That in itself is such a stressful space to be in, and it does get very lonely because you do hold for the leaders in those businesses, you hold a lot of responsibility on your shoulders, and most of the time you don't have that kind of corporate structure and organizational structure that spreads the responsibility around. ⁓ So having these spaces where these leaders cannot just feel the space to be understood and heard and kind of where I put in the work of diagnostic strategy, kind of looking at the diagnosis of how their strategy could support them for sustainable growth, but also learning from others who are going through the same experiences across different fields. Because even if you're in manufacturing and someone is doing ⁓ content creation or supporting content creators, there's something to be learned. There's a lot of cross-pollination just because it's a business. And the essence of a business is you are providing a product or service in exchange for fees and impact. That's as simple as that. With it come a lot of responsibilities and a lot of understanding and a lot of... exposure to internal and external factors, selecting your team members, understanding your financials. We're so financially illiterate because we weren't raised that way. These are all elements that are very, important. Stefan (36:53) Mm. Okay, so that's giving. What about you? What about you? What are you gonna... Dr. Hanan El Basha (37:03) I'll see you time. I've personally been this past year on, a health journey that's, ⁓ I kind of, again, milestones in life where I always thought this was it. This is where I take care of myself. And then that kind of, ⁓ dissipates, ⁓ this past year has been about, ⁓ a mental and physical health journey. It's about looking at, ⁓ my health and wellness, looking at how do I. look at the next 10, 20, 30 years, not just seeking, you I'm not trying to biohack my body or looking at longevity from that perspective. I'm looking at how do I stand tall and healthy next to my son for as long as possible, for me and for him. ⁓ So that for me has been again, transformational from physically transformational. So I'm so blessed and grateful for that. but also mentally and emotionally transformational. Realizing that, you know, with the weight that I've let go of, that was physically weighing me down. It was making me play smaller. It was because that projected how I felt about myself. And I'm, again, I'm being very gentle with myself. it was who I am and it was my security blanket one way or another. It was shielding me from getting overexposed when I wasn't ready for it. And now it's about how do I show up or every day I'm putting in the effort to show up in the wholeness of me, unapologetically me. I'm not trying to... place small to fit into smaller places. ⁓ I'm not trying to make someone else comfortable by me dumbing myself down. ⁓ It's about expanding, not just as you were saying, like I've got a lot of degrees and knowledge and stuff that I would love to embody all of it and share all of it without feeling the need ⁓ to kind of diminish a little bit of it because someone else is threatened by. So it's about finding those spaces and I've been very conscious of finding spaces in people like I call them my tribe that allow me to show up as the whole Hanan, not just parts of me. Again, there will always be people that are in my life that I'm not gonna put to the side that I need to show up as just parts of me and that's okay. But the majority of my life needs to be all of it. and that's in itself is, is how I keep building up who I am and what I do and how that is always interconnected. Because again, as a, as a business owner and a business leader, I don't believe you're separated from your business. It is a, it's an extension of, of who you are because your values, your ethos, your vision, everything kind of trickles down into the business and, and they're very interconnected. So Hanan is the business doctor, business doctors, Hanan. that's how I show up. Stefan (40:37) It's fascinating. I was watching you from when you first started about your journey ⁓ moving forward. And the first thing that came was in the head. The head was the this is the plan. This is what I'm going to do. This is how I'm going to help people, etc. And then when I talked about asked about you, then the heart showed up. It was it explained the journey had been on with the way, etc. And then feeling how you've become lighter and how your leaning into that and the feeling and how you are able to spread your wings etc etc and it was beautiful that you allowed us to show up walking with your son as well and that feeling and the energy which just was literally going from head to toe and then there was that little thing about the family the suddenly the energy dropped and it was just like look i understand i've learned yes this has to be done because they're not going to change Dr. Hanan El Basha (41:36) Yeah. Stefan (41:36) If I go in with my arms flapping, etc. That's not gonna so I know I have to kind of kind of bring myself down a little bit and leave them where they are. Beautiful, beautiful because you are so far ahead. They are they are where they are. But you know that you have to meet them in the middle just to keep that keep a relationship just out of respect just of who they they are. Beautiful. Okay, final thing. Dr. Hanan El Basha (41:44) Even where they are. Yeah. Stefan (42:07) If I met you in five years or 10 years, where are going to be? What are you going to be doing? What have you created? Or is that too much to ask? What is that goal? What is that big vision in the distance that you are heading towards? What is that destination? You Dr. Hanan El Basha (42:28) I think doing what I'm doing, hopefully it will be a much bigger scale just to get to positively impact more people and to change their lives. Yeah, that's a great. Stefan (42:41) Yeah, but I'm going to stop you there. I'm going to stop you there because the mind will go, yeah, but you're affecting a lot of people as it is. So why do we need to move forward? Why do we need to create something bigger? Your mind needs to be convinced a little bit more with the words that you're saying. Dr. Hanan El Basha (42:58) ⁓ I think, but you know what? I've realized it. I don't, I'm not putting a vision for myself five or 10 years down the line because I, I'm working that I want tomorrow to be better than today. And I know that things, as I was saying earlier, I'm making as informed as possible decisions based on what I know today. In five years, for example, Stefan (43:10) Okay. Okay, let me let me stop. Okay, and let me just stop you. So you so what you're saying is each day you're taking one step forward and then you're feeling that out and then seeing okay, is that right? Okay, let's take another step, step, step, step. Dr. Hanan El Basha (43:42) Yeah. Like, of course, you know, yes, the vision is there. I want to be on the biggest stages, working with the, you know, the biggest organization, supporting as many companies as possible and all of that. But as I'm saying, like in five years, in three years, our son finishes high school. And that's a whole new phase of our lives. Like we don't know where he'd end up with the university. We don't know how life would be. We're here in Qatar right now. I don't know if that's going to be the case in five years. You know, so there are a lot of Stefan (44:01) Hmm. Dr. Hanan El Basha (44:10) As I was saying, there are a lot of parameters within this equation that I cannot today tell you, oh, that is my plan in five years, because then I would be a bit obnoxious. And there are so many things happening. Like as we are talking right now, the region is shifting. I don't know what's going to be happening next week. We have a 10 day deadline. I don't know what's going to happen beyond that. It was five days and then now it's 10 days. Stefan (44:26) Hmm. Is it 10 days or is it longer? Dr. Hanan El Basha (44:40) That's the kind of, that's what I mean when I'm like, I don't know what's going to be there in five years. I know that I'm putting in the best effort that I can with whatever I've got today to make tomorrow a better day, to make more impact and reach more people tomorrow, to educate and also ground myself in more knowledge tomorrow. So I can again, support more people. On a personal level, it's working on making sure that I am grounded as a person, as a mother, as a wife, as everything. But first me, first Helen, because that's the base upon which everything else builds. ⁓ I'm as healthy as I can be, honoring my body, that vessel, mind, body and spirit, to be able to carry on from that perspective. keep my passion alive, not just for life, but also for what I do. So these are the things I can tell you, that's my plan. But if I tell you specifics of, know, I've always set up, for example, the business doctor as a boutique advisory firm. So I don't have the vision, even though I support people with sustainable growth, but I don't have the vision of having a hundred people work for the business doctor. So that's not part of... how I want to structure this business. But I would love to support a thousand companies to be able to realize their vision of their company, whether that is a 10 person company or it's a million people company. I don't know. ⁓ It depends on them. So that's why I'm telling you that's the vision I have, but I don't have the specifics of in five years or in 10 years where that's going to be. Stefan (46:14) Hmm. Okay, I'll leave it there. I think you've taken us on an amazing journey and I really appreciate you showing up and being open, honest and vulnerable and allowing us to join you, as I said, here today, the journey that you've been on and where it's going to take you. So thank you very much. Dr. Hanan El Basha (46:41) Thank you. Thank you, my friend. It's been an honor and a pleasure, always. And I am looking forward to our next coffee update. Stefan (46:55) you Absolutely, when I'm back in the country for sure and also you'll be back on this show as well because I love to touch base, to walk beside you and I'm sure the audience will as well. They would love to join you further down the line. All right. All right. Well, thank you, Hanan. I really appreciate it. Thank you for taking the time out and have a great day. Dr. Hanan El Basha (47:17) That's still my honor. ⁓ things.