Pain, Purpose & Becoming More Yourself | Peter McLaughlin

Stefan Lindberg-Jones (00:02) So thank you, Peter. Thank you for joining me. You are the second guest actually from when I started this whole conversation, your life, your call conversations. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for reaching out. Thank you for Peter McLaughlin (00:16) pleasure. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (00:17) being you. I want to start by what we were talking about just before I hit record because that was fascinating because I caught you and I said, are you okay? And you went, yeah, yeah, okay. And then it was just like, no, that's not convincing enough. And then you went into the fact that actually stayed up late, had a great conversation about the world. And I was like, really? The way it is at the moment? Just you follow on from there, what you were talking about and how you see it. Peter McLaughlin (00:52) Yeah, well, it started with me saying to you that I am alternatively horrified by what's happening and also completely intrigued and engaged. And it feels like, well, I believe from a spiritual perspective, we all chose to be here at this time. And therefore we must have chose it for a really important reason. And I was talking about the internet and how technology you know, I believe is being used by some to control us, but at the same time, it's also expanding our ability to understand each other, the world and the universe. It's connecting us right now and your listeners as well. So whenever, whenever I get bummed out about what's happening, whenever I maybe get frightened by what's happening, I remind myself you chose to be here at this time. It's an exciting time to be alive that the chance still exists for us to break out of an old paradigm and into a new one as individuals and collectively. And that brings me solace, but I do have this excitement inside of me for these reasons. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (02:10) That's interesting what you said that we're there to break out. Is it through this chaos that we break out into something new, something, I'm still there. No worries. Are you on the phone? normally when it goes like that it's like someone's calling you and it switches off. Yeah, because I can hear you. I can't see you. Peter McLaughlin (03:17) I just switched my camera. Hopefully that works. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (03:20) You can switch your camera. Peter McLaughlin (03:23) Yeah, yeah, I went from an external camera to the MacBook. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (03:28) Okay, cool. Peter McLaughlin (03:30) So I think that's what happened. I think the camera just failed for some reason. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (03:35) So, all right, we're still recording. So the powers of editing. So Peter McLaughlin (03:40) You Stefan Lindberg-Jones (03:40) what I was saying was that it was interesting how you said about breaking out. Peter McLaughlin (03:47) Mm-hmm. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (03:48) Do you feel that chaos has to be present for us to kind of develop, to evolve? Peter McLaughlin (03:55) I would say I know it does. If you think about kitchen renovation, the first step is chaos. It's destruction and chaos. And it's only because we understand what the process is and we've had friends go through it or we've gone through it before that we have faith that the contractor knows what they're doing and that this is the first and necessary step. Even if you walk into the kitchen and now it's rubble, you know, it was usable before. Now it's not even usable. But you know you have a vision of where it's going and you have faith that it will get there. And I think it's the same thing. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (04:33) Yeah, that's beautiful. All right, I wanna pull you back. I want you to focus on where you are now. Where are you now? How are you seeing your life? And I'm not going to say where you're going. Just at this present moment, where are you? What are you doing? Peter McLaughlin (04:54) OK, how prosaic or deep do you want me to be? Stefan Lindberg-Jones (05:00) however you feel you want to go wherever you want to go Peter McLaughlin (05:03) Okay. All right. So I, when given the choice, I prefer going deep. My wife and I were professional actors in New York city when we met, and this is like 30 years ago or something. And once our eldest, my wife was pregnant with him and he's 28. Once she was pregnant with him, I did my last play with the exception of of a play that she wrote maybe three years later and we performed it in New York in a contest. So it had been 22 years and we decided to produce a Shakespeare Evening. It was a nine show run in conjunction with a theater here in Florida. And about three weeks before we were supposed to go up, were two bank robberies, armed bank robberies that it turns out were committed by one of the actors in this production. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (06:02) No. Peter McLaughlin (06:03) Yeah! Stefan Lindberg-Jones (06:06) Well, you I've heard about actors and having to do part-time work just to be actors, but I've never heard that before. Peter McLaughlin (06:16) Nor have I. So there was no one else at this late date that could play King Lear. And I knew it was going to be me because I'm sick. I just turned 64 two days ago and, I'm at the right age and, I have the ability. I just hadn't done it in any acting in 22 years. So it was really scary. And where I'm going with this is that when we did a, when we did a tech rehearsal, you know, lights and sound, I was. for the first time standing on the stage, kind of walking around and making sure that the lights and everything were correct, but I was attempting to be a king. And I felt so uncomfortable. I'd never played a king before because I was so much younger the last time I was acting. And I didn't know what it meant to be a king. Well, where I'm going with this is to the concept of an archetype, you know, a jester or a joker. a warrior, I don't know if you would call it like a priest or something like that, but a king is one of the archetypes. And what I realized when this happened, I had a sense that like everything in life, there's a larger purpose to everything. It's not just this tiny little random event and it affects multiple people. And I knew in that instant, I had to step into this role. And the role was the role of a king. And I was really uncomfortable with that. But as I looked up the archetype of king, I realized this is where I'm supposed to be now. And it's not king with one person controlling other people and other people are there to serve the king. It's more of the reverse. Like taking care of other people, being more sober, imparting knowledge. You know, it's this last phase of life where you are, I think you're supposed to in a short sense, give back. And so that's where I feel like I am. It's facing my own mortality. Not because I was diagnosed with leukemia 23 years ago, because I faced it then too, but it's facing it in a more mature and sober fashion. And feeling less like I used to when I was an actor, like I want to be famous. This is about me. It's feeling, it's feeling different now. It's feeling like, no, this is about other people and it's about trying to bring whatever I have to offer in this last chapter of my life. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (08:57) That's fascinating. So let me get this straight. When you had to play the part of the King, how old Peter McLaughlin (09:02) Mm-hmm. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (09:02) were you then? Peter McLaughlin (09:04) Well, it just happened. Like we just, yeah, yeah, yeah. was Stefan Lindberg-Jones (09:06) it's just recently. Yeah, I just wanted to get that straight. I thought you were relating to something. Peter McLaughlin (09:10) the three weekend nine show run went from the end of January to the beginning of February. So was those Stefan Lindberg-Jones (09:18) Well. Peter McLaughlin (09:18) three weekends beginning on like January 27th or 28th. I can't remember the exact date. And I didn't learn Stefan Lindberg-Jones (09:24) Betty. Peter McLaughlin (09:25) that I had to play this role until I think it was December 17th when we heard the news that this guy had been arrested for two armed robberies. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (09:37) Dear, I'm just curious with the whole, like, so you had this narrative of within you of what a king should be and that's why you felt uncomfortable. Peter McLaughlin (09:50) Yes, yes. And it was only when I looked up what is the archetype of king and how do actors play kings? Like I looked up all of that. And when I looked those things up, I was like, okay, I get it. I understand why it's important for me to play this role now to begin to learn what that means at the deeper level. Like I was saying before, the sobriety and the maturity and the planning and the caring of other people. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (10:26) And how did that feel once you embraced that? Did it feel like you were, this is me, this is me coming home, this is me or where I am now, this is where I should be? Peter McLaughlin (10:39) That's a great question. did, I did become very, very comfortable in the role and I did a lot of self meditation slash hypnosis around it. did praying around it, you know, I, before every performance I would ask, I would ask God to, to, to, to use me as a vessel, to flow through me for the benefit of the cast, the crew and the audience and to impart whatever energy, whatever feeling, whatever message. that our creator felt like was important for anybody there. It might've just been for one person, I don't know. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (11:15) Hmm. Peter McLaughlin (11:15) But I felt grounded in all of that. Despite the fact that King Lear is not a great role model. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (11:25) Well, that's something that I wanted to go down is the fact that you mentioned about researching to be a king. Where does an actor go and do his research? Where do you find the information of how a king should be acted? Is there there resources for an actor to or is it just looking at previous roles of people that play kings that you're watching how they showed up? Peter McLaughlin (11:55) That's a great question. And yes, I watched some video of other people like Anthony Hopkins playing King Lear. And I must say that I feel like as an actor, I didn't get anything from these other, know, august performers. There was nothing in their performance that resonated for me. What resonated more for me was drawing upon my work as really like a spiritual coach, I think is what I am. And it was looking up, as I said, the archetype of King, you know, this this timeless spiritually oriented version of what a king really is. And that, think, was sort of the foundation upon which I rested the performance. And then it was the other things that actors do, finding parts of this man who is kind of repugnant, at least in the beginning, and finding a justification in my own mind of why he would be this way. Like what is his own pain? And finding the moments of tenderness with his daughter, even while he's banishing her, you know, and the internal conflict between you can't do that to me, I'm the king and I'm going to be this way, but also the loss of this cherished person. So I looked at all of those sources. I looked at other actors, didn't get much out of that. I went on to AI and it's how do you, know, how do actors act a king? Got a little bit from that, but the most was from this archetype concept. And that's what really resonated with me in terms of the bigger reason why, one of the reasons I suppose, that I was unexpectedly thrust into this that was causing so much fear inside of me, because it had been so long. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (13:45) Hmm. Peter McLaughlin (13:46) You know, and I had positioned myself as the teacher, because this is not just any kind of Shakespeare, it's called unrehearsed Shakespeare, which is how Shakespeare was performed in Elizabethan times. You they didn't have copy machines and they didn't have copyright laws. And so each actor just received their lines and then a three to five word cue to let them know when to speak. And it was rolled up on these dowels and handed to the actors, this is the role you will be playing, because it's rolled up on these dowels. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (14:18) wow, okay. Peter McLaughlin (14:19) And so I had taught the other actors, because none of them had ever done this before. I had taught them how to do it. So I had held myself up as the expert. And now all of sudden, I have to perform. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (14:32) that. I love that. I'm learning new things. This is brilliant. I want to lean into and I love the fact that you as a coach went into that role looking at every aspect of this character rather than just kind of imitate or how it's been performed before and how you didn't get much substance from the way it was done before. Now you're actually, now you're asking the question why? Why was he like that? Why was he Why did he react that way? So you get a clearer, you get a full 360 degree vision of how this character, what was his history? Why was he acting like this? And why was he responding the way he was, et cetera, et cetera? That is beautiful. Peter McLaughlin (15:21) Yeah, it was really fun for me because it's almost like these snapshots of, like you, like all of us, I was a different person 22 years ago. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (15:33) Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (15:33) So much has happened in the interim to inform me as a human and that's what actors do. They bring all of their experiences with them when they play different roles. And so I brought, I think, a similar but different version of me. to the stage and it was really such an amazing experience. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (15:55) Yeah. All right. Let's go back. If you reflect on the journey that you've been on, would be, and I know you reflect back on when you were diagnosed with leukemia, was that a big change for you? Did that stop you in your tracks and kind of get you out of that autopilot mode of just living? Peter McLaughlin (16:24) yeah. And, you know, with a, with a big underline and bolded with exclamation points after it. Absolutely. it, another podcaster coined the phrase, at least for me, you got hit by a spiritual two by four. And that's what it took. You know, for some of us we're, we're so stubborn that we don't heed the more subtle calls that are undoubtedly happening. And for me, It had to be a twin diagnosis. So it wasn't just leukemia. It was also Lyme disease, you know, two diagnoses on the same day at the age of 41, when I had three small children and it required that for me to be shaken out of my stupor and begin to wake up. I mean, and I will say too that that was not the only thing it took for me. that a couple of years later, that was in 2003, in 2005, my family and I, were vacationing in Puerto Rico. And I'm not a surfer. I had surfed once for like four seconds or something in Hawaii, never taken any lessons or anything, but I rented a board and I walked down to the beach and I noticed that there were no surfers out in this bay where the day before it was filled with them. And I thought, Wow, that's not a good sign. I bet it's dangerous today. And then I had the thought in my mind, how messed up is this? I had the thought in my mind, well, you've been diagnosed with leukemia. What difference does it make? You're probably going to die anyway. And so out I go into Stefan Lindberg-Jones (18:01) What the hell? Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (18:03) the water and I'm struggling out there. The conditions are terrible. I'm getting knocked off the board over and over again. And I finally, I'm exhausted and I think I better go in. And so I start paddling my way in and I realized that the current has taken me probably a half mile down the beach. The beach is totally empty. And I get to about 20 yards from the beach and I think, all right, I've got this board that's, you know, affixed to my ankle and I don't want to get caught in a rolling wave and have the board hit me or something. And so foolishly, I take the board off and I push it into shore and I start swimming. And a wave knocks me underwater and I keep swimming. And a wave knocks me underwater and I keep swimming. And I'm getting more more tired and I realize I'm making no progress at all. I must be in a rip or something. And I didn't have the presence of mind, know, swim parallel to the beach where I'm just starting to like freak out. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (18:56) Hmm. Peter McLaughlin (18:57) Well, all of a sudden this guy that I had just said hello to, I didn't even know him. I just said hello to him, walks a half mile down the beach just to check on me. I've never met this guy before in my life. And he shouts out to me, are you okay? And for the first time in my life, first time, I yelled back at the top of my lungs, I need help. So he runs to get the board, which is genius. And as soon as he does that, right after I speak these words, I kid you not, it felt like the hand of God lifted me up by my ass and deposited me on the beach. Look, total mind blowing. I literally felt like I was being pulled like this. Like a big hand was underneath my butt and threw me with a wave, lifted me up and threw me, slammed me down on the beach. How could anybody not interpret that as you need to learn the lesson to ask for help? You're not an island. But again, Mr. Stubborn had to almost drown to learn this lesson. And I don't think it was random that this guy that I didn't even know that I just said hello to, walked down the beach to check on me. Because his part in that little scene was necessary to say, are you okay for me to yell, I need help. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (20:30) Wow that's incredible. I'm just curious on reflection if leukemia, Lyme's disease didn't slap you in the face and this surfing incident have you thought about the journey that you would have carried on just based on the programming that you Peter McLaughlin (20:53) Yeah. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (20:53) had? Peter McLaughlin (20:54) Yes. It would have been very dark. You know, I had, I had an anger thing. You know, I get really angry at my kids for doing little kid things. I was shut down, emotionally shut down and all of the tension from working four days a week as a consultant on wall street, one day a week, building a security guard business, traveling, commuting two hours each way. Trying to restore a hundred year old house, trying to take care of kids, not hanging out with friends, not doing anything for fun. That was causing so much tension inside of me, my back was going out. It wouldn't have been pretty. I wouldn't be married. My kids probably would hate me or have very little to do with me. I would never have found this path that has felt like a calling. God only knows, honestly, God only knows. I mean, maybe I would have gotten into alcohol or drugs to try to deal with all of the tension and everything. I don't even know it, but it couldn't Stefan Lindberg-Jones (22:07) Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (22:08) have been pretty. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (22:11) So I'm curious, when you're in that deep dark hole, when you're faced with such information and you're looking at your life, how did you manage to get yourself out? How did you manage? Because I've been through depression twice and I always look at it as a way of, you know, it's life or whatever you want to call it, saying, That wasn't your path. And I'm going to literally pull you through this darkness. And if you can find your way out, there's going to be a new path for you. And I've been there twice. And I when I reflect back, when I look back, it's amazing. I'm so grateful for going through that deep, depression experience and finding something inside of me that literally goes, you know what? This is where you're going. First time. All right, ego, head, pick me up and set me on a new course. But then the second time, ego literally pushed to one side and it was something really deep. And that's why I end up here now talking to you base. It made me tune into my heart and my soul to really listen deep and what really Peter McLaughlin (23:33) Hmm. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (23:33) resonated with me. So for you, when your face with all that. How did you get yourself out? Peter McLaughlin (23:45) It's a great question. I will answer that question directly and then tell you how it's been simplified since then. So this was in the immediate wake of 9-11 and the consulting I was doing was literally on Wall Street, a block and a half away from ground zero. And I remember hearing a terrorism expert counseling people how to deal with fear. And they were saying, Well, you get to know your enemy as intimately as you can. You take you, you build yourself up in whatever way you can, and then you take action. Those were the three steps that he talked about. And so I thought, all right, well, instead of turning away from a cancer diagnosis, instead of kind of hiding from it, which is very human, I thought, Well, I need to go right at it. I need to look it in the face. I need to learn as much as I possibly can about it. So I just kind of immersed myself in learning about this and then doing the things that I felt like I could do to make my body stronger. And it was over the period of about three years or so that I came into this concept of mind-body. And that's when I thought, okay, for a series of other events, I should be trained as a hypnotherapist. But I also at the same time was, and this is how the whole condition was discovered in the first place, I was a volunteer firefighter. And when I was volunteering to do this work, that's when the extensive physical had to be performed. And as part of doing this work, I was dealing with life and death events. You know, it wasn't like in the middle of a big city or anything, but we still had. 30 serious car accidents a month on average that required the fire department to show up. With all of the attendant injuries and trauma and pain, and in some cases, death that went along with this. And I remember there was one incident where we would respond directly to a scene. We had our personal turnout gear in our vehicles, and then the apparatus would join us at the scene. And so sometimes, based on where you were, I was already in my car. you can get to a scene really fast. So I was the second guy on the scene before any apparatus had arrived. And it was a really bad car accident. And when I walked up to it, there was a, what turned out to be an 18 year old boy lying on the grass. And I walked up to him and I could tell he was gone, just gone. And then there was another firefighter and officer there. And he said, go get the driver out of the driver's seat. And I walked over to the driver's side. You couldn't tell the front end from the back end. This is how bad it was. They hit two trees. off the first one, then off Stefan Lindberg-Jones (26:31) No. Peter McLaughlin (26:31) on the second one. And his head was 180 degrees looking in the other direction. And the officer saw this and he said, just let him go. Just walk away. And when I was reflecting on this, I was thinking about how one minute before my pager went off and I heard the police dispatch call us out, I was thinking about, my leukemia diagnosis, blah, blah, blah. I wonder how long I'm going to live and all these other things and how can I heal this? And those kids, one minute before the accident, probably didn't have any care in the world in terms of their health. And then, you know, one minute later, two minutes later, boom, both of them gone. And it brought home that truth that we all accept, but it's very hard to grasp it viscerally. that nothing is guaranteed to any of us. So there was a perspective shift in doing this work. There was also a kind of distraction with going out on these calls and doing the training that went along with it, that I don't know, it somehow gave me enough, as I say, distraction to keep me from fixating on myself. And then when I went through the training, component of it was choosing one of the instructors to be our hypnotherapist. And I know that I cleared a lot of what I would call emotional toxins from my past. And I just came back feeling lighter. I felt like this isn't gonna kill me. This is a chapter in my book. It isn't the whole book. And the short answer now is there is a purpose to pain. So depression is a form of pain. You know, being diagnosed with a potentially life Ending illness is a form of pain. It's not just physical pain. Feeling like you're not, you're worthless is a form of pain. Boredom is a form of pain. And the pain, the purpose of it is to call your attention to something that's living beneath the surface, out of sight, that needs attention. You know, just like physical pain is the same thing. It's calling your attention. You know, open up the hood, look in the bowels of the engine. There's something in there. that has malfunctioned. There's something in there that needs your attention. It's not the symptom. Pain is a symptom. The symptom is just there as a signpost. And it sounds like that's exactly Stefan Lindberg-Jones (29:03) Nice. Peter McLaughlin (29:04) what you did by going within, by becoming intimately familiar with this unpleasant feeling, by living with it, by letting it teach you and show you whatever it needed to teach and show you. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (29:18) Yeah, absolutely. So while you're going, while you're learning about therapy, you're learning about yourself, but you're also learning about how you can help other people. Peter McLaughlin (29:30) Yes. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (29:32) And how did that manifest after, as you're going through it? it feel a natural thing for you to do while you're Peter McLaughlin (29:43) It did. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (29:44) learning about yourself as well? Peter McLaughlin (29:46) It did, it did. So much of, well, the essence of a hypnotist is language. And also not just language, not just the words, but more importantly, the tone, the cadence, the pitch, the volume, the silences, the timber, all of that, which is really the art of the actor too. And when you, the work that I do, the gold standard from my work is ultimately a regression to the cause. And then a healing of the cause where it lives, which is in the subconscious mind, which our conscious mind would say is in the past. And once that's healed, just like replacing a part that's gone wrong in an engine, whatever symptoms are associated with it, either go away or they become much, much better. And I would never have in a million years thought that my time as an actor would somehow turn up in something seemingly so unrelated. But to me, they feel like they're married, that it was essential that I had that ability and that experience to walk somebody through the you know, on the canvas of their mind, to walk them through these scenes from earlier in their lifetime, where they are the principal actor, where there's some kind of conflict, just like in theater, for example, and to help them through that in a way that essentially rewrites the code in their mind, rewrites the software. Where consciously Stefan Lindberg-Jones (31:43) Hmm. Peter McLaughlin (31:43) they can remember everything that happened, but the subconscious now, because it's been rewritten, doesn't view it as a clear and present danger in the moment. And so their bodies don't get hijacked. Just like with me, when I didn't have the anger anymore. I came back from my training and the kids could do the same thing that they were doing before, but I remained calm. My body didn't move into a fight or flight response. And I could think in my mind rationally, well, that can't stand. We can't let that... but it wasn't like I felt this rage about it. was just, could make a rational, loving response. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (32:23) Nice, that's beautiful. There was a few things that popped up for me while you were talking, because there's a lot of clients that I work with who feel that where they're at now, they regret the past, they regret everything that they've done in the past and that there wasn't anything to gauge, learn from that. And they want to make that big leap somewhere else and not appreciate the journey that they've been on. And that's what you said was the fact that you appreciate the things that you learn as an actor, that you now, there's that natural incorporation of who you've become, but you appreciate the things that you learn as an actor. And it's showing up in a way that now you can understand that, yes, this is maybe why I did that. And this is why I'm here now. It's helping me as a therapist. to help people in a way, if I hadn't had that experience and that training, maybe I wouldn't have showed up in the right way. Peter McLaughlin (33:33) Exactly, yeah, exactly. And I would agree with you that everything happens for a reason. And I've gotten down on myself at certain points in the past, like, why did I spend 10 years as an actor? I didn't make any money doing that. I could have been building this and building that. And it's only through that time and the sobriety and the... Stefan Lindberg-Jones (34:00) Hmm. Peter McLaughlin (34:01) the really the deep consideration and then being in the moment and saying, you know what, I don't think that would have been possible if I didn't have this ability and not everything. I in our culture, I feel like everything my wife and I were talking about it this morning, that everything seems to flow back to mercantilism. know, everything flows back to, well, what have you produced that is of economic value or what have you consumed that is of economic value? And everything else, without anyone having to say it, sort of gets left on the periphery as, isn't that nice? Rather than at different cultures, Stefan Lindberg-Jones (34:37) Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (34:41) different times in history, philosophy might've been at the very top. Like, who are you? Why are you here? What happens when you die? What is the purpose of life? Like, Stefan Lindberg-Jones (34:51) Yeah. Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (34:54) I could see why that would be at the top. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (34:57) Absolutely. Peter McLaughlin (34:58) But for us, it's like, yeah, I just got another bigger widescreen TV and we're going on a vacation. You know, Stefan Lindberg-Jones (35:02) Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (35:05) I want to get a big boat with this time with four motors instead of two. But at some point, as you and I know, as you get older, that stuff is just not as meaningful. Once you've Stefan Lindberg-Jones (35:19) No. Peter McLaughlin (35:20) bought your eighth car and you've bought your fourth home, and suddenly your Stefan Lindberg-Jones (35:24) Yeah, absolutely. Peter McLaughlin (35:27) children... Mean way more to you or if you're lucky Stefan Lindberg-Jones (35:31) Hmm. Peter McLaughlin (35:31) enough to have grandchildren or just talking with friends about ideas So yeah, I can I can understand I think it's I because I've fallen into that trap to that trap of I'm measuring myself Against what billionaires or something or you know Stefan Lindberg-Jones (35:49) Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (35:50) people with hundreds of millions of dollars or or that live on the water in some huge house or that that have so much money that they don't feel like they have to work anymore or go on fabulous vacations when really that's just a very small slice of life. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (36:10) 100%. And that brings me to you and where are you going? What is this all for? You've been on an amazing journey. You're here now, present, and you're doing what you're doing. But how do you see yourself in the future? If I met you in three, five years time, will I be meeting the same Peter or? What's the plans? What's the goals? What's the vision? Peter McLaughlin (36:41) It's, I think simply said, it's, excuse me, one to many. And so much of my work over the last 20 years have been one to one. And that's been great. And I've learned a lot because when you do spiritually based regressions, when you help people meet with their spiritual spirit guides and you, you say to them, ask your guide this question. could be about the meaning of your life or why did this happen to you or whatever it is. And you get answers back and you get these answers back from hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people and they all are similar. You learn so much about the unseen energetic architecture of our larger existence. And what I'd like to do is to never give up working one-on-one with people, but pivot more of my time and energy into into working with more people simultaneously. talking, teaching, leading, so working with groups of people, talking to larger venues to help people understand that nature of our existence and how it relates to us as individuals, that this concept that we've been talking about with pain, that pain has a purpose, that death, for example, from my perspective, from working with all of these people, from researching people who've experienced near-death experience, it seems clear as the nose on my face that death is just the physical body expiring. which if you brought that analogy back to the world of cars, it's, and I said this to my kids when they were little, that death is really just, you know, the person who was driving the white minivan trades it in, and now they're driving a red sports car. And from the outside, Stefan Lindberg-Jones (38:47) Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (38:48) it looks like, oh, you know, Bob is gone, he's ceased to exist, but I'm now friends with Steve over here. But really it's this, the same driver with a different vehicle. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (39:01) Hmm. Peter McLaughlin (39:03) And that the only reason that you and I can communicate with each other is we're doing it through our physical bodies, through our five physical senses. And when somebody dies, you can't do that anymore. You can't touch them. can't hear their voice, but you can still connect with them through your consciousness because they still have consciousness. And this is such a revolution. Not, it's not a new thought. This has been around forever, but in our culture, it's a, it's a revolutionary way of thinking about our existence. that involves and brings to the table things like karma, that every action reverberates through time, and that if you harm someone, you have to have the same experience, not as a punitive punishment of some kind, but rather as a way of learning. That the pain that we have in this life, as you and I are talking about, is there to teach you something. And the sooner you learn it, and this was something early that I remember reading, that if the leukemia is here to teach me something, if the Lyme disease is here to teach me something and I learn it, doesn't it stand to reason that I wouldn't have to have the same experience? That once I learned everything there is to learn about the second grade, theoretically I could go to the third grade, learn something else. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (40:22) Yep. Peter McLaughlin (40:23) So yeah, it's really the, I suppose I could have just said, yeah, I want to teach or something. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (40:29) No, I'm glad you didn't. But while you're talking, it's funny how when I'm coaching, I always use the image of cars. And generally, it's about getting to know the vehicle that's driving you to the destination. There's a lot of us that are in autopilot and just sit in the driver's seat and literally we're taken here, there and everywhere without any question. And for me, I always say, you have to start putting your hands on the wheel. You have to get to know what's under the bonnet. You have to get to know how it feels, how it maneuvers, how you can put your foot to the pedal, et cetera. Really get to know that vehicle. But 90 over however many percentage of people don't. They just sit in the car and then, yeah, whatever. It takes me here, there, I don't care as long as I can get somewhere. But I don't really understand where it's taking me. I just take it for granted. And it's just like, no, you feel it, drive it. And it was funny how you brought up the whole car and trading the old car for a new car. that's that is just exactly how I say it. Well, what popped up for me was when you said about speaking to more people. When you see it like that. Do you see how things are evolving in your own life to make space for that? And I love the fact how I love the whole one-on-one. I really enjoy that journey. I really enjoy that connection. And at the moment, the only time that I reach out to a bigger audience is when I do my lives every single day. for you, where you are, do you see as you're evolving how you have more time to be able to step into that space. Peter McLaughlin (42:26) Yeah, yes. And I also used to think, I remember I used to think that my, that the role of a person's life was to kind of shore up their weaknesses, was to get better at the things that they're not good at. And then I remember reading something, which like, no, no, that's not the role. You're supposed to emphasize your strengths. And Stefan Lindberg-Jones (42:48) Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (42:48) they talked about how the Beatles, I don't know if this is true, but this is what they said was the Beatles didn't know how to write sheet music. They hired people that did that. You could Stefan Lindberg-Jones (43:00) Okay. Peter McLaughlin (43:01) hear the melodies in their head. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (43:03) Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (43:04) You couldn't write it down in the technical form. We could play it. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (43:07) I can believe that. I can believe that. I love to compose, you know, create music, but I can't read music, but I would always be listening to, I would put one riff down and then with my right hand, I would layer it with another thing that was popping in my head. And I can understand that, yeah, if they create this beautiful music, but why do they need to know how to write music? Peter McLaughlin (43:33) Yeah, so in the spirit of focusing on my strengths, because I know what my weaknesses are. And now I think part of that king archetype is knowing what my strengths are and not being feeling like I should be shoring up the weaknesses all the time, but rather I should be focusing on the strengths. And so that's also part of this next chapter, which is also related to acting. I know that one of my strengths is communication. I know that I can communicate to people. I have a lot of experience and I have a natural talent for it. And whether Stefan Lindberg-Jones (44:08) Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (44:09) that's, you know, creating content from a YouTube channel, which I made into a decent sized YouTube channel, or it's doing loads of podcasts or it's being a speaker at a corporate event or something, talking or it's leading a group of people in a retreat that I've organized. This is where my thinking is now, is wanting to be more in the middle of the river where the water is moving smoothly and swiftly of Stefan Lindberg-Jones (44:44) Mm. Peter McLaughlin (44:45) my own abilities, my own interests. And it really does, again, leverage all of that time as an actor. my God, all that time. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (44:58) Well it feels like you've gone full circle. Literally it's like you're coming home but you're acting you're... Peter McLaughlin (45:00) Yeah, yeah, it is. It's exactly like I'm coming home, but I'm coming home with a different version of me. Because when Stefan Lindberg-Jones (45:09) Hmm. Peter McLaughlin (45:10) I did it before, like a lot of actors, I think I just wanted to be loved. mean, it's one of the few professions where people will clap for you. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (45:17) Yeah, yeah. Peter McLaughlin (45:19) You know, if you need that, clearly you're trying to fill some kind of a hole inside of you. And I think all of the time away from it, God helped me to get to a place dealing with leukemia and Lyme disease and the fire department and being an EMT and working on businesses and helping other people and raising children helped to fill that other part inside of me that doesn't need that anymore. That feels King like to me. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (45:43) Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (45:44) You know, I don't need to be Lancelot, you know. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (45:47) No. Peter McLaughlin (45:48) with a shining armor anymore. I did before. it's, yes, it's bringing all of that experience and all of that native ability and bringing it into a realm where I already know what I'm good at and what I'm not good at. I'm not good at anything administrative. I'm not good at anything organizational. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (46:12) Hey, you're the man of, yeah, I feel exactly the same. None of that boring stuff, the administration. And it's funny how, because when I was younger, I wanted to be a pop star. I wanted to create music. That was everything that I wanted to do. But then my parents pulled me back and went, no, no, focus on your education. Get your education and then whatever you want to do. At least you've got the education to fall back on. But then once you've gone through that, educational path, you go, well, I've done it now. I might as well just carry on and see where that takes me. And I gave up the whole music dream. But I see, just like you, that there will be a point, and I mentioned that when we spoke the last call that we had, was that there will be a point where I will return. And while you were talking about the whole acting and and the ego about wanting to be loved, et cetera, et Wouldn't it be funny if... the image came up if all these young musicians had that wisdom, had that experience. So they're coming in with the youth, but they don't need the fame. They don't need to be yearning for that money, fame, love me, love me. But they would come in going, yeah. And you see some artists that are like that and you respect them because they just love being a musician and the whole noise of the fame, et cetera, they're not really interested, but they realize that this is how it has to be. And it's amazing how they can maneuver through that whole industry that is just literally there for the ego. And you've got Peter McLaughlin (48:05) So. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (48:05) people around you just literally praising you and building up your ego, ego, ego, ego. And that's why you see a lot of musicians that crash and burn because when the music dies or the attention dies, then they feel lost because he was just like, hold on, this was me. Why isn't, why am I not loved anymore? And then they, don't know who they are. They, they crash and burn. Peter McLaughlin (48:27) It's so true, and you really see this classically with child actors. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (48:33) Mmm. Peter McLaughlin (48:34) You know, it's such an impressionable age. They're showered with attention Stefan Lindberg-Jones (48:40) Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (48:41) from millions of people and showered Stefan Lindberg-Jones (48:43) Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (48:44) with money and showered with fame and the cameras are clicking. And then when they grow out of the juvenile roles and they're not so cute anymore, it all falls away. That's Stefan Lindberg-Jones (48:53) Yeah. Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (48:57) horrible. And that's why so many of them, I think, turn to drugs and alcohol. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (49:02) Yeah, just to fill that gap. Absolutely. Peter McLaughlin (49:04) Exactly. And there's, there's a paradox inside of all of this too. I've done a fair amount of work with elite athletes, NFL players, division one football players, and some others. And the paradox is in order to be at the literally at the top of your game as an elite athlete, or as a performer, you have to be completely in the moment. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (49:31) Hmm. Peter McLaughlin (49:33) So if your mind is partially going to the past to some failure you had in the past and hoping it doesn't happen again right now, if your mind is partially going into the future of the consequences of success or the consequences of failure, you're not fully present. And if you're not fully present, as you know, as a musician, you can't give your best performance as a musician, as an actor, or as an athlete. Or I would argue, Stefan Lindberg-Jones (50:01) So true. Peter McLaughlin (50:02) Even in business, if you're making a presentation to investors or a sales presentation or you're trying to rally the troops to motivate them and part of your mind is somewhere else, you simply cannot perform at your highest level. And by placing all of that stuff around ego in its proper location, its proper status, It's easier to let go of all that, which paradoxically allows you to perform better. You already have to be enough, in other words. You Stefan Lindberg-Jones (50:37) Hmm. Hmm. Peter McLaughlin (50:38) already have to be, to think, this doesn't make me a better or a worse person. If I do a really great job and people run up to me and they're congratulating me and the cameras are popping and everything else, I have to know somewhere inside, they're not congratulating me, I'm just a vessel for God. And if I don't do so well, they're not booing me. It's not me. It's just their own projection in a sense. And Stefan Lindberg-Jones (51:03) Absolutely. Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (51:05) that's a that's a huge moat to cross for any kind of performer. And I think you're right that the ones that we really do respect that have been around a long time at some point have crossed over that. They have recognized that this, that getting another mansion, that having more paparazzi take their picture, more people asking for their autographs and making know, yet more money for the next film is not going to change their life at all. And that their life has Stefan Lindberg-Jones (51:34) No. Peter McLaughlin (51:34) meaning beyond what they do on the field or on the stage. And that's when they really turn into, I think, into the truest artists. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (51:46) Yeah, it's like they've arrived, just like you. You've arrived and you've done that full circle. And what people will see is, is that true performer, therapist, coach that is proud of his journey, has got the knocks and the scrapes, the wounds to show that this is me. This is the true me. This isn't any performance. This is the genuine me. This is true heart and soul that's showing up. Peter McLaughlin (52:19) Yeah. Yeah. And I think of us as sometimes I think of us as like, if you've ever spotted somebody in the gym when they're doing a bench press and you're standing behind them and your job is to make sure that they don't drop the thing on their throat. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (52:31) Yep. Peter McLaughlin (52:32) And the function you're really performing, cause you're not lifting the weight. The function you're performing is to help them feel safe and to motivate them. You can do it. You can do it. You can do it. Push, push, push, push, push, push, push. You can do it. You can do it. And if you do Stefan Lindberg-Jones (52:45) Yeah. Yeah. Peter McLaughlin (52:47) have to assist. It's usually you just use these fingers and you may be lifting, you know, a half a pound or something. That's enough for them. So put it Stefan Lindberg-Jones (52:54) Yeah, yeah Peter McLaughlin (52:57) up there. That's, that's really what a teacher is. That's what a coach is. That's what a guide is that we're helping people to believe in themselves because they're the ones that are doing the work. And as far as an artist is concerned, I really do think that we are like channels or vessels for. for divine forces to use us as an instrument in a sense. And that when people are clapping for us at the end of a performance, they're not really clapping for us in the truest sense, they're clapping for a divine force, a divine energy that animates all of us. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (53:39) So true, so true. I often, now in the game when I'm editing and I catch myself while I'm speaking and I'm surprised. It's just like, I really said that? That was me? Because there was no intention. As you say, you're like a vessel. You're literally allowing whatever's flowing through you to just come out without any holding back or, I shouldn't say that. It's just like, no. Let it be. Whatever is coming through, I will say it. And Peter McLaughlin (54:12) Yes. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (54:13) it's beautiful. When you're younger, you're always, no, I shouldn't say that. Maybe they're gonna think of me like this. When you've been on a journey, it's just like, no, let it flow. Let it just come out however it does. And as you say, you're there to walk, for me, walk beside... your clients, the people that are looking for help and to inspire them to and I feel like there's an exchange of energy as well. There's there's the there's an amazing exchange of energy and a connection as well. And Peter McLaughlin (54:51) sure. For sure. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (54:53) and it's funny when some I'm always surprised that you can feel it online as well. I don't know how that works, but it's always I thought that online when I was training to be a coach, I thought, not gonna feel it, not gonna, but while I was training, you could feel it. You could feel the energy. You could feel Peter McLaughlin (55:14) Mm-hmm. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (55:14) the energy in the room. It was amazing. And you could feel that, you know, there'd be a time where a lecturer would come in and it's just like, something's off. I'm Peter McLaughlin (55:24) Mm-hmm. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (55:25) not feeling it. And the whole room could feel it. And you would raise it at the end and go, I didn't feel it today. I felt that something was off. Maybe it was just the way she, used her words or the way she came across but we could all feel it so it is powerful and I'm loving this journey and I can see that you're loving this journey too and I'm going to sign off now I really appreciate Peter for you giving us the time and the space and allowing us to walk beside you where you are now showing us your journey and allowing us to see where you're going as well so thank you Peter McLaughlin (56:02) And thank you, Stefan, for inviting me and for asking such thought-provoking questions. I really appreciate that. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (56:10) Thank you. I really appreciate you and who you are and I look forward to connecting in the future as well. Peter McLaughlin (56:18) Me too. Stefan Lindberg-Jones (56:20) Thank you.